Ask an Expert All Your CSS Profile Questions

  Okay, well, it's a little after 6 30. So we'll get started slowly. Welcome, everyone. My name is Julie Shields, routine. Ah, and I am the director of college planning, education and training at MIFA, and I am joined by a couple of my colleagues behind the scenes. Jonathan Hughes and Jennifer bent opinion will also be helping with with questions and keeping them organized.

And the topic tonight, as you know, is the CSS Um, and it is a, um, I guess a topic of interest because we had a lot of registrations for this, and we're so happy to have our, um, main presenter. And as we say, question and answer with an expert. And that's Mike Goodwin, who is actually associate director of student financial services at Williams College in Williamstown, Massachusetts.

And hi, Mike. How are you? I'm fine. Hi, Julie. How are you? Great. So what we're gonna do, let me just... Talk about a few logistics here. I think most of you probably have heard of MIFA, but we've been around since 1982, really with the sole mission of helping families plan, save, and pay for college. And we were started way back then with a loan program to help families pay the cost of education that was rising very quickly, even back then, where financial aid didn't Didn't meet the full the full need the full cost and we've continued since then and we have the state's college savings programs and we also have all kinds of free guidance, no matter what age and stage, um, your.

You're at your Children. Your students are at so, um, stay, stay in touch through through this process for sure. And tonight we really do want to answer your questions. So if you have a question, um, Put it in the Q and a and we will talk about it with Mike and he will, uh, you know, help help you all through through this.

Um, what I would say is that if you would like to use closed captioning, hit that live transcript button and you'll be able to see the words that we're speaking across the screen. And one additional feature of that. Is that you can also choose the language. If you happen to want to see those words in a different language, you can use that too.

And that's true with all of our webinars. And if you need to leave, you may leave at any time and just know that tomorrow we'll be sending you a copy of this recording. So you'll, you'll be able to hear the whole discussion. So, you know, I guess, Why not? I'm moderating this. I'm going to start with the first question, Mike, and just say, can you kind of start us off and tell us, you know, what is the CSS profile?

Sure, absolutely. So the CSS profile is an additional financial aid application that families are going to apply for if they're, if the student is applying to one of, I know this is 200 on the slide here, actually it's 400 colleges, universities, universities. And other agencies that offer scholarships and such.

Um, it's a tool that's a little bit more in depth than the FAFSA. Those of you who may have experienced using a FAFSA before, you know, there's a, a way to, to you click a button and the Department of Education talks to the IRS and it fills in your form. Um, and that's going to continue with the new FAFSA, which we'll talk about in a bit.

The CSS profile doesn't have that relationship. So you're going to sit down with your 2022 tax return and your W twos and your schedules and fill out the profile. It's online. Um, your student should have a college board I d number. So, when they go in, they can start their CSS profile account. Um, they put in their ID number, they will say that they have parents and they'll share the parents email.

Then you'll receive an email to fill out the form. It's a tool that goes along with FAFSA. FAFSA is required by all colleges if you're requiring, uh, requesting aid, including if you're also using CSS Profile. Again, CSS Profile is only going to be about 400 colleges, uh, universities, and those are usually schools that have endowments that they're supplying the grant aid through their program, through their endowment and their, um, their institutions.

Um, it's used to use. It's used to give non federal aid funds. The CSS profile was available October 1st, and so you can get on it right now and get started. Um, and it's there's a cost that goes with it. 25 to to do this profile and allows you to attach 1 college to to send your information to. And then 16 for any additional college after that.

However. If your family earns less than 100, 000 in 2022, you will receive a CSS profile waiver and those costs will be waived and you can send them off at no cost. And then I, so I just thought I'd also ask, so, you know, the FAFSA filling out one financial aid form seems like enough, you know, a little bit more, but why, why do institutions want, want to use this additional form?

Sure. So the FAFSA is going to ask. General information about your assets, right? Because right now, in the way the new FAFSA, which was, let's take a second. Well, let's talk about the new FAFSA. FAFSA, which is usually available October 1st, is being delayed until mid to late December. And that's because the Department of Education has redesigned the FAFSA so that it can give more grants and federal aid out to more students.

It's also designed to be simple. They call it the Simplification Act. It's designed to make the faster, easier to use. So when you go into the fast, but one of the first questions you'll be asked is that do you give consent for the Department of Education to talk to the IRS and just move all your information right to your fast perform.

So you're always going to want to mark yes to that. And so now have to work the fastest done now because it fills in all your income information right from your tax return and it's all verified because it comes from the IRS. Then you're going to fill in your asset information, which if you own another property, money, a check and savings account, money and investments, um, and so on the CSS profile, it's a little bit more in depth with these questions.

And so, uh, if on the asset side, the CSS profile is going to ask you about your home. If you own a home, what is it worth? And what do you owe on it? So it's looking at home equity. Um, it's going to ask you about your retirement. And I know that question is going to come up. It already came up today. Uh, a gentleman who can't make tonight's session email both Julie and I asking about retirement assets.

It's going to ask you about retirement assets that are not used in the calculation. We're not going to count it as an asset. But the CSS profile asks more questions than the FAFSA because it's really going to pay, it really is paying attention to what is your, I call it your family's economy. What is the, the amount of income and assets that you have to help colleges, um, and their analysis to see how much granted they can give you because they're using their own money as opposed to the FAFSA.

Which comes up with a number that colleges will work with, um, that kind of answer your question. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's great. I just know when families when you're going through this process, you know, it all seems like a lot. So why the 2nd floor? And then I thought I'll just before we start asking other people's questions I thought I'd just show a screenshot of where people can go to start the CSS profile, and I don't know if there's anything.

Okay. Anything else you want to say about that, Mike, before we get to the questions. Yeah, no, I think Julie's point is perfect. This is where it starts. Um, the colleges who, you know, as you're looking at colleges or students looking at colleges, they'll want to see if it's a CSS profile school. It'll say so right in their website and they'll have a link to the profile and it'll look like this when you get into it.

And it all starts right there sign in for the fall of 2023 2024 year colleges will carry that. Hi, right until the summer and beyond. So you always have a chance to apply. I must have a firm deadline. So you want to check on deadlines. That's the biggest part of applying the CSS profile is look at your schools deadline.

Make sure you make it because these schools are using their institutional funds. And if you're waiting to the last minute or applying after a deadline, their funds may be depleted or not enough that you could have received if you, if you applied earlier on, um, the list of colleges right there. Every college has a code number.

You just click there and you'll get that information. If a family is divorced or separated. There's a little information right there about how, how to apply in that case, and I'm sure we'll talk about that later on. And also. The student, the parent student live with is considered the custodial family, the household, and then CSS profile, which is different from FAFSA is going to ask about the non custodial parent.

So in the FAFSA, if you're divorced or separated, the FAFSA is going to ask for information for everybody who lives in the household. Um, and their terminology is changing a little bit of that with the new FAFSA, but that's going to include the parent and if the parents remarried, they're going to want that income information.

The CSS profile looks at your parent you live with, and then your non custodial birth parents, so both can be remarried. The CSS profile, when we do the analysis, isn't going to look at the new spouses, it's only going to look at the birth parents. And the philosophy is you can divorce a spouse, but you can't divorce your child.

And so we're looking for both those, those parent, uh, incomes. And we'll talk a little bit later, I think, I'm sure, uh, tonight about what happens if I don't have a good spouse. Relationship with that non custodial parent. All right. So I think I'm going to stop sharing the screen so we can just have more of a conversation here and.

Should we? I ask one more question before we get into the folks questions, which is just about you. You've talked a little bit about the FAFSA. Anything else you want to say about the, you know how they're the same, how they're different, the alignment of those two forms in this coming year. Yeah, I guess I would say, I think people really, when you're applying to school that has a thesis profile, that really is going to be the focus of your institution.

So people get kind of caught up in the FAFSA. And wanted to change things or whatever. Um, FAFSA is going to put a student in a position for a student loan and if they're eligible for Pell grants, um, and, and that's about it. You'll get that student index number, which is going to be an amount. That FASFA says you you would expect to pay for college and then colleges use that number how they want to use it.

The CSS profile comes up with the parent contribution number and that, um, so they're gonna be more focused on their information than the FASFA. So I think, you know, excuse me, fill out the FASFA when it's ready and it's available. Um, the best ability, but the focus really is gonna be on the profile. Um, that was nice with the, the, the new FASFA.

And it's all this talk about. Number in college and not counting number in college. Don't worry about that. The college you're applying to will work with that. And especially if you're serious, his profile school, those schools are going to take that information and use it to help you with the understanding of two in college.

So profile profile is gonna be a little more in depth than the faster information is going to be. Thank you. All right. Well, let's take some questions and answers and I, I can ask some or john and Jennifer if you've had time to be reading a few. Do you have any that are that stand out to you? Yeah, I have one.

I can I can ask and this is. One that I think we've discussed, this has to do with the questions surrounding free lunch programs, EBT and free lunch programs. So certain school districts in certain cities, everybody's eligible for, for free lunch, right? And so there's the question, do you answer yes, do you answer no to this, to this question?

I think if you're receiving it, I'd answer yes. I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't think it's going to have a major impact on one way or the other. Um, the colleges use the CSS profile, they're aware of these kinds of situations and such and they'll work with them accordingly. Um, again, the CSS profile is trying to get the best profile that they can get of your family's income and assets, your family's economy, as I say.

Um, so I think answering those questions, it's not going to hurt you. It might benefit you, if anything, um, because it kind of gives the school a sense of this is your family's profile. This is, um, this is how you live and this is what you, uh, receive support for and, um, and that, that's, that's not going to hurt, should not, should not hurt.

Thank you. And I see a question. I know we get these questions a lot. There are some required questions and some don't say required to the families only need to answer the questions that say required. I have my answer. That would be answer everything because we so I look at these all the time and doing analysis and such.

And there may be question marks today. I had a situation that we're trying to help a family and there was a question regarding some property or whatever. And I think in the family just didn't represent it. They weren't trying to hide anything, but they missed the question regarding if if they own their home.

If they also rent part of their home. Um, and so, so today I caught that and they, they missed it when they did the file when they did the application, excuse me, and I saved them somewhere around 20, 000 dollars today, and I, which I feel very good about, um, but I think some of these questions that may not seem required.

Answer them because again, it gives us the best best picture of who you are and what's happening within your family and kind of along those lines. If the answer is zero, should they put a zero or leave it blank? Or does it matter? I'd always put zero. Yep. Because sometimes I mean, I know I felt these things families use the net price calculator.

If you don't put a zero and even though zero there, it won't compute. So somebody I think and we all every college has a different operating system that we use and some may not read. A blank square. So put a zero in. Um, sometimes we might look at something and say, I think they forgot to put a number in there.

Um, so if you have a zero there, then we know you've answered that. Jennifer, I don't know if you have any or should I keep going? Yeah, there were a couple that were around the, um, The year you should apply for. So is it 2023 24 or 2024 25 if you're a current senior? So you're applying for 2024 25, because you'll be starting the fall of 2024, and then you'll be there for the spring of 2025.

So you're applying for 2024 2025. What, but to add to that, both FASTA Profile, you know, Julie talked about the differences, but a lot of things are also very similar. Both the FAFSA and the CSS profile use what they call prior prior year, meaning if you're applying in the fall of 2024, we're requesting you to use your 2022 tax return.

So you're going to be applying for 2024 if you have a senior in high school right now, um, and you're going to be using your 2022 tax information, 10 40 w twos schedules and everything. Right. And there was one other one that came in a few times. Um, a question around. Can you add institutions after you've completed the profile?

Yep. You can always go back in, um, and add, and add schools. Uh, I don't, Barsha, I should know this. I'm trying to think of last year. I know FAFSA used to have a number you could only do, and then you could delete some and add more. But now I know FAFSA is expanding that, I think. The profile, I don't know if there's a number there.

I apologize, but I think once you get it and you sent out, you can always go back and make sure the schools receive your information. Delete those schools add new schools in because once the school has your information, they have your information. They're going to have your information because you've applied for admission to that school.

So they're going to put those two. Applications together. Um, so that's fine. So if you deleted one, once you know, they have it, you can add more schools and such. But remember, it's 16 every time you add a school, um, unless you're eligible for a waiver. And yes, now that with the FAFSA, people can add 20 schools.

So that's, that's kind of nice. This one is a question about the FAFSA, but I think I'll be more interested for you to tell the CSS profile answer. So someone asked if a student is an international student, do they need to complete the FAFSA? And the answer is no, but maybe you can talk a little bit about international students using the profile.

Sure. Yep. So I would just say, and I think Julia, you're right. But I would always make sure a student might be have an international family, like I live in Canada and Mexico or, or Bahamas, but I have us citizenship. And if the student has us citizenship, then they need to apply for the fast fun. Um, the CSS profile is designed for international students.

And you fill it out the best your ability. They'll ask you to CSS profile. In your your country's currency, and then the pro and then you'll and obviously you'll share what country you're from. And then the college board, which does the CSS profile, they will convert the money into the currency into us funds.

So we can do our analysis and do what we need to do. And then when you receive your award, depending on the school your pilot come out and us dollars and you'll have to do the conversion yourself. Um, the colleges are still going to want, uh, part of the process of the CSS profile, which is different from the FAFSA, is that you're going to send in your, um, financial information through a system called IDOC, the Institutional Document Service, IDOC.

So everybody will do that, filling out the CSS profile. International students. Well, I can have a 1040 form or whatever. So you're going to send whatever tax form your country might have or some kind of documentation showing what you've earned in the 2020 2020 20 excuse me 2022 year. Some schools may wait until you for until 2023.

They have a more recent, um, amount on that. Um, so check with the schools and see what they're looking for. Um, but you have to send something in, even if it's a letter from your, um, your parent's employer saying, and this year, this is what this person earned, um, and then, um, and then take it from there. Each school might have different requirements for international students.

So you want to check their websites. Um, to make sure you're sending in the right information. Can I break in with one really quick? Yes! Please. So this is one that, um, I think I actually know the answer to, but I think it's important, so I wanted to, I wanted to ask you and make sure everybody heard it.

This one says, should you wait to do the form until you've received acceptance letters from school? No, I, I, no. Um, and it was funny, so Williams, where I work, We don't have a deadline and we have fun. So I have students who are applying in November like or this October for financial aid this year. We're unique in that.

But remember that colleges have 99. 9 percent of the colleges are going to have deadlines and so you want to meet those deadlines. If you wait to see if you're accepted, and then you apply. You might be missing out on merit aid on institutional grants and so on. So the idea is stick to those deadlines.

Um, and and apply when you when you're applying for admissions apply for it at the same time, because ideally, I think schools like to send your your admission letter along with your award letter and the other piece of that is if you get your award letter, and that's based on 2022 income. Remember, but in 2023, maybe your parent lost a job, you're going to want time to appeal that.

And if you're waiting till you get accepted, and then you apply for aid, and then you want to appeal, They could be out of institutional funds by then. Um, so the idea is to get it in early and be on top of it. Um, and then and take it from there. Thank you. I'm sorry. Can I add one more thing to that?

Because you know, you just got me thinking. So I think families might wait until they get accepted before they apply for aid because they're worried about cost. Every college has a net price calculator. So my advice is to get on their calculator and see what that cost is going to be. And if you have a business or you have questions about, you know, am I reporting this correctly, call the, call the college's office and see if you can meet with someone to ask your questions about, am I reporting this, this number accurately?

And is my net price calculator, um, is that number accurate? Is that what I should expect? Because those are put in place so you're not surprised when you are accepted. That the cost is so high. You can be proactive with that. Um, and get in front of that. So you so you have a sense of what to expect. Thank you.

And along those lines, I will say, Mike, I think, I don't know if you have said exactly this so far, but, um, many colleges that use the CSS profile have. And have a lot of their own endowment. I know you said that and have significant dollars to award. Um, it can be amazing that sometimes the, um, you shouldn't be scared off by those high costs, right?

Because of the money of many schools like yours. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I'll share a story. I, um, if I can, um, I have a daughter who works for a nonprofit up in Portland, Maine. And she had me go up and meet with some of our students who allowed Mar are Somali and Sudan refugees and lower income families, and they had no desire to apply to Williams, despite having the academic ability to apply.

And we sat down, we worked with the calculators and they realized that the cost is so much for the family so much better than would be applying to a state institution and such. Because the colleges have the money and a place like, like Williams and so many other schools. Want to make higher education affordable, and so we want to put our money towards helping families, um, achieve that goal.

So Julie's point's a really good one, and that's not, it's not to say one's better than another, but if you, if your student has that academic ability and that, and that drive to want to be at a competitive school, always apply and get on that calculator and see what that cost would be, um, because I can tell you these three families I met with were, were floored and, and I'll be honest, they're, I kept up with them and they're all applying to, to very, you know, good schools, um, schools that they wouldn't have thought of applying to before.

Okay. Okay. I know you talked about this a little bit, um, about how you colleges that use CSS profile like to have, um, the non custodial parent also do the profile. But what if there's no contact with that parent or they they really can't get in touch with that other parent Can you talk about the waiver process.

Sure. Yep, absolutely. Yep. So it's interesting we talked about the difference of the faster than the CSS profiles that fast was looking at the household the student lives in. Because I don't mean to sound silly about this, but the federal government knows they can get that information if there's a noncustodial parent, they don't want to be worrying about trying to chase that parent down or trying to figure out if they can work with that family or not.

The CSS profile asks for both birth parents. If they're divorced, separated, never marry. Um, um, all these, you know, we still would want that parent that noncustodial parent. To apply using the CSS profile, but in many cases, there were no relation. There's no relationship with that parent for a number of reasons.

Incarceration, uh, violence, just disappearing, leaving the country. So what's nice about the CSS profile is that when you, when your custodial parent goes to submit and they go to again, the IDOC, that, that institutional document service, there are a number of different forms that are available. One is called the non custodial waiver form, CSS profile non custodial waiver form, and the student will fill that out stating how they do not have, they'll fill it out as much contact information as they can.

Um, oftentimes they may not have anything. Um, and then there's a place to write a short narrative about their relationship, and it could be that there was abuse in the family. It could be that the parent just left the family. It could be alcohol and drug related, um, numerous reasons. I've read hundreds of these waivers.

Um, and so it's a great tool that allows the college to say, yep, we're not gonna Um, I'm not going to ask for anything from this parent. Um, just because a parent doesn't want to, I'm not going to say a parent doesn't want to pay, that's not going to be enough of a reason. That's no, just because I don't want to pay doesn't mean that they're not going to be, um, responsible for the contribution that, that we come up with.

Um, but what things, things that colleges look like is how long it's been since you've had a relationship, had contact. Um, and then part of that is the CSS waiver form. Asks for a third party letter, so the student should ask a guidance counselor or a teacher or a coach, uh, a clergy member or a religious person in their family, somebody who outside of the student and the parent, the current parent who can share that, that non custodial parent is not in that student's life.

Um, some colleges may ask for two of those letters. But they're, they're just looking for, for, um, lack of a better word, evidence that, that just shares that these are reasons why this parent should be waived. Thank you. And I don't know, John or Jen, if you have one, and then I have another two. Um, I could, but Jen, I feel like I've asked one more recently.

Jen, do you want to? No, go ahead, go ahead. Okay, this is kind of a process question, which I think I, I get sort of hung up the most. Somebody wants to know, um, it's about adding or deleting schools and how they can do that. And somebody said that they had deleted a school, but then when they went to the submission page, it looks like they were still being charged for a school that they were.

Delete it. Yeah, you know, and that is a process question that would, I mean, that's something to be asked the college board because I, I'm not really, my guess is that if you, if you put it in, they're going to send that information to that school. So you, so once it's, once the, the horse is out of the barn.

You can't get it back in toothpaste in the tube, whatever announcer you want to use, um, it's out there. So they have that information. So you can't delete it at that point. Um, that's the point when I talk about deleting schools, you're deleting from your list, but you're adding more. A new school is going to pop up.

They're going to see that and, and, and fall through that. And then there is one more that I've gotten a couple of times and actually have this question, uh, from a, from a customer who called it's about IDOC. And it's about, um, you know, if you're going to be expected to upload those documents when you're filing your CSS profile, or will they reach out to you later on that, how does that process go?

That's a great question. Yeah. So a family will submit the, the CS profile application. And it goes to college board, the whatever the headquarters is, um, and then they will process it and it takes about a day or so. So within a day's time. An email will come back to the student saying, um, and probably the parent too, because they have that information saying, now we need you to upload your 2022 tax information.

Um, so you will, and they will give the site for it. The student will sign in using their, their, their new idea at that point. It was a CB FinAid ID that they put in and then either their birth date or their social security number, they'll get into the IDOC system. And they'll I dock that when you get into that page, it gives you a list of items that that you need to upload, which will include the 2022 1040 tax return W two's schedules.

So schedule 1, which talks about additional income you may have had or adjustments to income schedule to, I think, is, I think, is investments. And then like, uh, schedule C, if you're self employed, um, schedule E, if you have rental property or you own a business, all those, all those schedules are going to want to be included in that.

A piece that's important for those folks who are listening. If you own a business and you have, uh, uh, like you fell in love in 20 S or 10 65, 10 65 is for our partnership. 11 20 s would be a sole propriety proprietor. That business has its own tax return, which is the 11 20 s or 10 65. You're going to need to include that in the I doc because that's your business.

It's your income, it's your assets and CSS profile is going to want to schools using CSS profile, you're going to want to look at that information as well. And then with those forms the 11 20 s the 10 65, you would have what's called a K one. Thank you. Which is kind of like the business tax returns version of a W two.

I mean, you're gonna want to send that in as well, but holds up a lot of family and getting an award is they forget to, um, submit these business tax forms. So those are important. You want to make sure you have those ready to go. Thank you. I have a question, Mike. So income is going to be much lower than it was in 2022.

What happens? So that's a great question that families would want to check with their schools to begin with schools that that they're applying to and maybe the schools that they've been admitted to and have it once you're admitted, then have that conversation. What's great about the profile. And again, it goes back to Julie.

What's the FAFSA and the profile? The profile will ask, you know, your 2022 information, then it's got a section. It's going to ask you about 2023. So, you know, you're going to, you're going to share as best you're depending if you're early decision or if you're applying in January, February, you may have your W two's, but it's going to ask for your 2023 information.

And then it's going to ask you to guess an estimate what 2024 looks like. So what happens now is the profile has a three year picture. Of your family's income. So you might share that, you know, so in 2023 is a loss of income, apparent loss of job or whatever might have happened, um, that will be reflected in that application.

What's great about the CSS profile. Is that there's a box called Special Circumstances, an area called Special Circumstances. I see it as a box when I get the information, um, and then that Special Circumstances, um, area, you can share these changes. So you can share that my father lost his job in March of 2023, and we, and he collected unemployment until October, or still collecting unemployment, whatever it might be, but you're sharing that story of what's going on today in your family, Even though we're looking at 2022.

So what will happen is that you'll probably get an award based on 2022 information, but the colleges will share in your award letter. We will be in contact in 2023 or when your taxes are done or whatever to look at your 2023 information to help. I think despite what people might think, colleges really do want to help and give you the best award they can.

So when you have new information, it's important to share. Um, and what's nice with the profile, it gives you an opportunity to do that.

I'm going to ask my favorite question, because we get it a lot, and then a couple of people here asked it. So, there is a question. On the CSS profile that says, um, you know, the one I'm going to ask you, I was almost going to ask it to Julie right before you did. Go ahead. Yep. So I just see the wording. It says, you know, how much.

Let me see, do you have the wording, John, from here? Let's see. Yeah, somebody said, uh, please provide the best estimate of what students parents plan to pay for the students educational expenses. And they said, is this what we hope to pay? Is this what they, you know, should, should we include loans in that?

Is this, you know, is this what we're supposed to, are we supposed to guess, you know, that, and what kind of impact is that going to have? I'll share as a parent. My wife and I put two daughters to and through college. That smells like a trap, doesn't it? It seems like they're trying to set me up and give a number.

I can't tell you the number of families who just put zero, hoping that'll be the number. Um, and remember, the colleges are trying to get that profile. And so the idea is that, you know, what is it you're hoping your contribution to be? And I my advice that is always be reasonable. Think about it. Look at use the calculator.

Um, but be be reasonable in that. Um, I'll share. I share this way too much, but I talked to a father today who makes 440, 000 a year, and he was very frustrated that he wasn't getting any financial aid, you, you, we all have to be reasonable about what a college class is going to be. And I know when I when I do these and I'll look at that sometimes and see are we close with the parents want to be at.

If my calculation comes out close to what the parent is expecting. I feel good about that. And we send that out. And that's fine. If we do our analysis and we come up with the best number we can come up with and so maybe it's 15, 000 and the parent has zero, you know, we don't know design only so much we can do.

So my thought to that is I can tell you a Williams. We're not using that in our decisions. I can't say all schools don't if you if we came up with a 10, 000 contribution, but you thought you're going to pay 40, 000. I can't speak for all schools who wouldn't say, you know, use the higher number. I, I find it hard to believe in the colleagues that I have and the conferences I've been to my friends in this field.

Anyone's going to do that to you. Um, so my, my best advice is always be reasonable and put a number there that you are comfortable thinking this is what we'd want to pay. Um, because I'll, you know, I hate to say I guarantee it, but. You know, it's probably always gonna be a little bit higher than what you're hoping for.

But I think there's a lot that goes into all of this. Um, and I can tell you that we're doing our best to help our families to, um, make it affordable for it. It's a fun question because I always feel like I had to answer that the best way my own personal feelings along with, you know, what might be out there.

So there are a lot of things this might Encompass a number of questions. There are some questions about, you know, what if I don't know what my next my future, you know, how profile asks three years of income. What if I don't know what my estimated income is going to be, um, and this question is actually about, um, a sibling might be in a community college two year institution, but isn't accepted yet.

So how will I know? So there are some questions That are estimated. Can you just talk a little bit about how you would advise on on on anything that's that's an estimate? Sure. Yeah, I would say, you know, give the most optimistic estimate if you have a younger if your student has a younger sibling who may or may not be going to college.

You know, you can share that. I don't know if there's anywhere on the profile that asks if you're, I can't, I don't, I just did the profile yesterday. I'm trying to think of that question was there or not. It might be. And I think if you think your child's going, the younger child's going to college, put it in there if they, you know, college, every college is going to decide, we all want to give credit for having multiple children in college.

Some people, some colleges are going to look at community college differently than others. Thank you. Um, and again, that's a question to ask the schools once you get your award, um, for, for future years, the idea is that, you know, I'd always be the most optimistic, you know, And when I say that, if you think that student may be going to college, put it in there because that's only gonna help you later on.

Um, different, again, different schools treat it differently. Some may be in your favor. Some may not. Be honest. And I think this goes to me when I, when I talk to families all the time. Be as honest as you can be filling out this form. Um, because I, I, I've heard horror stories that people have lied on these.

Profiles and the student gets into the school and they get this great aid, and then it comes out that the family was not being truthful. Um, and if it's their assets or whatever it might have been in college is pulling students out. Um, and you just don't want to be one of those families. So I say, just be honest and be optimistic.

And, you know, if there are any questions again, we're here to help. If we have questions, we'll reach out to you. That's great.

So someone asked how much of a student's assets are they going to be required to use? Mm hmm. So when we put together, so the parent contribution, when schools look at putting together that parent contribution, that amount, we're looking at relatively somewhere between 10 23 percent of a family's income, total income.

So what you've earned Um, and then other items of either that create that total income number 20 to 23 percent and that variability is based on your zip code. You're the oldest parents age the spouses age. If there are the siblings in the family. Um, if you report elder care if you have a grandparent is living in the household or, or you're taking care of all these kind of things come into play on that income side.

A parent's asset looking at three to 5 percent of their asset. Again, those variabilities come to play with that. Um, a student's asset is set at for most schools with CSS profile is set at 25%. So if a student has 100, 25 is going to go towards their contribution. So what many schools will do is The parent, on the award it'll say the parent contribution, and then the student contribution, so that could be 25, um, depending how a school wants to do that.

But 25 percent seems to be the, the, the percentage that, uh, both FAFSA, I think, and the CSS Profile schools, FAFSA might be, FAFSA may be a little bit lower. Um, but my I'm saying it's 25 percent Williams. We treated differently in some schools. You know, Williams is special in that sense, but some schools will look at the students asset to say the student has 800 in a checking account.

They'll just move that 800 to the parents asset side, and then take three to 5 percent but all depends on the school and how they how they do their calculations.

There's a question about parents who were married in 2022 and filed jointly, but got separated in 2023. Any suggestions on how to split the taxes information when filling out the CSS profile for custodial and non custodial? Sure. Yep. So when you're filling out the CSS profile, we refer to as a window in time.

Meaning the evening of the time that you're filling out that profile should be what, where the family stands. Okay. And that means how much is in the cash and the checking account and the savings account and investments, whatever that date you fill it out, you use those numbers. If a family was married filed jointly in 2022, but separated in 2023, you're going to share that information, you're going to report your parents as being separated when the student starts the CSS profile.

And then that special circumstances. You'll share that parents were separated or divorced, depending on how quickly that happened on whatever date that might have been that they're currently separated. So what we'll do is we'll take that 2022 tax return, and we'll basically split it in half, because you're going to share your parents, or parents will share their W 2s.

So we'll have the custodial parents W 2, the non custodial parent W 2. Then we'll split everything else in half. Dividend incomes, capital gains, everything else will be split in half when you report the assets. We'll split that in half as well, unless when you build the special circumstances you share with us, we split our assets in half, or I took what's mine and, and hey reports, what their report report's theirs.

Um, but what we'll do is we'll take that time, we'll split that out when the award letter comes out. In most cases, it's gonna have. Total parent contribution or total resources, however, school might list it out as an amount, and then it'll say custodial parent contribution, a certain amount, non custodial contribution, a certain amount.

What's important for parents to know if you're in a situation like this is that you're going to fill out, the custodial parent will fill out their CSS profile, non custodial will fill out their profile. There are two separate full profiles tied together by the student, we will not, and I say we, it's a, it's a, um, a standard throughout all financial aid colleagues, financial aid, um, um, offices that we do not share information between these parents who are separated or divorced, um, both information is private, you just see that contribution piece, whatever that contribution piece comes out at for, for the custodial parent, the non custodial parent, That's just us saying this is what analysis comes out to how you pay, how parents pay for it.

That's totally up to the family. It might be that the father, excuse me, I shouldn't say the father, but the non custodial parent pays for all of college. Maybe that's the agreement or the custodial parent may do it or it's covered by child support, whatever it might be. We don't care. We just know that these the numbers.

This is the amount that you're going to pay for college, parent one, parent two, and then you decide How are you going to you're going to pay that bill?

Um, I can ask one that I've got here about child support. There's one asked about child support received in 2022. The next question asks, did the child's parent pay child support in 2022 or 2023? Who is this referring to? I'm filling out as a custodial parent. I received child support, but I don't pay support.

So is the answer yes or no? No custodial parent will be filling out this answer. This is confusing. So Johnny, I want to make sure I understand correctly. So. Custodial parents receiving child support. Do they answer the question regarding paid child support? Yeah, exactly. So they just asked the question that that refers to receiving child support.

Is that true? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So whoever is receiving it, you put in the amount that you receive the, the, um, um, paid child support, which oftentimes is that non custodial parent for that custodial parent, you would just put zero there. You're not paying child support. You're only receiving. Um, I have seen situations where the custodial parent is paying child support to the non custodial parent.

Um, I think, you know, if I can, forgive me, I'm going to take a step aside for a second and go back to the FAFSA. One of the reasons with this FAFSA simplification is that there's a history of families reporting the custodial parent, the parent with the lowest income being reported as the custodial parent while , they're, they're not.

And that the mm-Hmm, the parent with the higher income may be, but they're trying to get more aid, um, reporting that the non-custodial parent is the, is the custodial parent. 'cause they have lower income, the fastest changing to the point they're, they're changing their policy that the parent who gives the more, the greater support financially.

Is going to be that that that parent that contributor, um, that is going to see us as profiles going to follow that model. The idea is, in fact, I have it right here. I've heard a side and I'll read exactly. With the 2024 2025, uh, profile says both divorced parents and financial support. Your parents are divorced or separated and you'll be asked on the application to provide them which parent provides the majority of financial support.

In bold letters, it says typically that parent, the parent that selects, they provide, the more than half of student's financial support is the primary custodial parent. So what they're saying is, for the most part, the parent who's paying the most, um, support usually is gonna be the, the custodial parent anyway.

Yeah. Oftentimes we have parents who split 50 50, which, which is fine. Um, if you're both filling the, the profile. You gotta keep in mind that only one parent or household will be selected that they provide more than half the child support. So I think it might be 50 50, but it comes down to where does the student reside more, um, who's paying child support, those kinds of things.

I think it's easy for parents to get so revved up in this, um, because they do everything, they try so hard to make everything even. Um, we just, whatever you choose, the key is whatever you poured on your FAFSA in that relationship. Who's the custodial parent? Make sure it's the same reporting on a CSS profile because we're audited by the Department of Education.

And if they find these discrepancies, then they're going to start asking questions and such. And you don't want to be in that situation. I was thinking another question that too, because it's one that I've seen a couple of times come up. And that is, what, um, What's the best way to determine the market value of your home?

That's a great question. So a couple of ways. One, if you've got a tax, a tax bill, your tax bill should say the value of the property you own in your house and so on. You can use that number. You can go to Zillow, zillow. com and use the number that is there. Zillow usually is a little high. Um, schools have questions.

So excuse me if you live in a high, you know, zip code area like New York City or San Francisco, and you say that your home is worth 150, 000. We might question that and go to someplace like Zillow and see what that number is, or we can email you directly and say, can you give us documentation, showing us how you came up with this number for the value of your home, but your tax bills should have your value of your property.

Um, so I would use that. And if you don't have access to that, then certainly Zillow or Realtor. com are one of those places. I have a question. Sure. So do you have to fill up the CSS profile every year as you do the FAFSA? Yep. The short answer should be yes, but some colleges will use the CSS profile to start and then assume that the parent's income is going to stay steady for four years while they're at that school.

And just use that as a baseline. And then if a family loses a parent, loses a job, then, then you can go into peel and they'll look at that. Williams, a place like Williams, I know our school, we have families apply every year because we know income does go up and down and things change and the assets change.

Um, and so on. So we, we try to keep the most recent information as we can, but I know there are other schools, um, that will just ask the CSS profile the first year, um, and you'll continue doing the FAFSA every year, but they'll use that first year CSS profile as a baseline. And I was going to add that probably.

It's best to check with your college that second year, but, um, but you can, if you just want an idea of it, that participating colleges list usually says all four years or one year or something. So you can see, I have, I have a question about valuing a business. So, um, what method should a family use to value.

Business and there's so many uncertainties in the market. How, how does one go about doing that? So yeah, they're, they're, I mean, businesses are such a funny thing. My wife owns a business. And so she files a schedule C, which is self employed and she puts her numbers in from that schedule. See, you can see what she's earned and then what, what she's deducted and what she's paid and whatever.

Businesses who use a Schedule C, we're going to ask you to, you know, do your own evaluation. You know, do you have equipment? Do you own property? Do you, whatever it might be, and do your best to kind of share that information. Some schools may want some more documentation on that. I would always check with them.

Um, those who have incorporated businesses, And file an 1120S or 1065, a partnership or a sole proprietor, you're going to have that tax form and on page, I think it's four or five to that tax form, you, you'll see, you know, what you've earned and what the value is of your business that year and then what you're, what you paid out, but that, that form will also should give you what the, the, um, value of the business is.

So you can use that. If you work with a, a business advisor or an accountant, they should be able to give you that information. Um, depending on the, the, I mean, some colleges, like our school, we're not gonna hunt that information down. Some schools may want more documentation stuff to get a sense of what, what the, the amount is.

So I would check with the school, um, to do that. This goes back to the idea that be honest and do the best you can answering that question. So, so ideally if a school does come back to you, you have the documentation ready to go to say. You know, this is what I'm taking these numbers from and you know what, Mike, we have a lot of questions.

All of a sudden, the same one that you answered today of that that person who got in touch if the retirement information isn't used. Why is that question asked? So maybe you can go through that again, and it goes back to why are we asking? How much do you expect to pay? Because we're trying to get that economic profile of your family.

We want to know the whole picture. As we're doing our analysis. So what? Hi. So I do a lot of work with families with our net price calculator. I'll talk to 50 or 60 families over the summer, even up to today for students who are applying early decision at Williams and on the net price calculator. It doesn't ask about retirement.

It just asked about investments. And if I've talked to 50 families as of today, I'll tell you that 25 to 30 included their retirement. In their investments, even though the question says do not add your retirement. So the profile asked this question, your retirement benefits one to get that full picture of your family economy to we want to make sure you're separating your retirement investments.

IRA 401ks from your outside investments, 529 college savings plans, Disney stock, you know, whatever stock market outside investments. So we want to make sure you're separating that out. So we were protecting your, your retirement because we're not using that in our calculations. We're not going to count retirement as an asset.

The third reason it's there and, and I want, you know, people just understand this, the work that we do is sometimes you get to a point that we look at a contribution for a family and we're looking at that number and we're thinking this doesn't sound right for this family because of the, for a lot of different reasons.

Thank you. And so what we can do is kind of like, all right, so these parents are 58, 59, 60, 63 years old. Are they prepared for retirement? And so sometimes even something like that can sway a decision in making an award. Because again, we want to help. So having that retirement piece because that is, for some families, that's a major piece of their family economy.

We're not going to use that amount. But in our in the assets, we're not going to count that, but we want to know. So we have that full picture. Um, so again, just be honest with it, put that number in there, um, and know that we're schools are not going to use that as an asset, however, because it's financial aid is always a however, when we're looking at your income and your W two's on your W two that you receive from your employer, there's a box box 12, there's a number of sub boxes inside it.

And what box 12 is tells us is how much money is going towards your retirement plans. And so in that box 12, there are a number of different letters that are coded. So the letter is D E F G H and S all, all representative of what you're taking from your earned income, that money you've earned from your job.

It's untaxed. That you're putting towards your retirement. So we're still counting that money as income. Once it's in your retirement plan, we don't count that as an asset. But we are looking at what you're putting towards your retirement. Remember I talked about total income. That's part of a family's total income.

So for some families, it may be 5, 000 that they're putting in towards an IRA through their employer. That's fine. Um, I have a dad in California who's this great guy. I love talking to him. Who's a teacher, and he's divorced, and he was not putting money away for his retirement, so he's trying to catch up.

So he's putting 60, 000 in untaxed income into his retirement. So we met, and I had explained to him that we have to count that, because that's still earned income. It's just that it's untaxed, and you're putting it into a different account, but that's money that family can use, he could use for college if he, if he chose to.

We're not challenging that decision to put towards retirement, it's a great decision. But that's still money that's available from his earned income. So when, when you use this kind of goes back to that calculator again, that's one of the questions on a calculator is what is your untaxed earn earnings that you have.

Um, and so you want to, you want to make sure you include those. Um, if you're doing the calculator to see what a school is going to cost you, we will be looking at that. And then that is income that a long enough answer. Julia, I can make it longer if I have to do it. No, it's good. And can you, we have a lot of questions to that.

I think we're going to fall under this because we're getting it's 730. So we'll, we'll ask a few more. Um, but some are very specific. So what I'd say, if we don't get to your question. Please just, uh, email. I'll give you the college planning at me for dot org email and you can email it into us and we will we will definitely be able to answer it at a later point.

But a lot of these questions. I'm sorry, Julie. I'm sorry. Can I do a plug? Yes. So Jennifer and I co chair what's called fast for day, which is part of the Massachusetts financial aid, um, professional organization. So we offer a number of online sessions that you do through Zoom. We'll, we'll pair you up with a financial aid professional from another college or organization to help you fill out the FAFSA.

And we have our website fafsaday. org. You can find our website and we'll have those dates up soon because we're waiting to get more information about when the FAFSA will be available. They probably will be starting, I know MIFA is doing a session in January, Julie, if I remember correctly. Um, and then we'll be doing February, March, April, May.

Along with that, we have FASFAday at gmail. com. So you can email us as well at FASFAday at gmail. And we have a number of people on our committee who will be checking that email every day so we can answer questions as well. And it doesn't have to be just FASFA, if it's a CSS profile question, we're happy to answer it.

Um, and if the person answering that day can't do it, another person will come in and get back to you. Um, so along with MIPHA, which I can say MIPHA is wonderful, what they offer and the support and, and such, but we're also there for you as well. Absolutely. So, yeah, I think some of these questions might be answered.

If you can just talk a little bit about that special circumstances. So for example, someone asked and said, um, that this person owns properties, but the maximum that you can add is nine. And this person has more than nine. So I didn't know if maybe that could be taking. You know, care of in that special circumstances.

And then another one of special circumstances said, what other kinds of expenses could you write about? And then someone else said that the special circumstances box was too small. So maybe you could just talk about how to, how to give, give the financial aid office additional information. Sure. Yep. It's interesting.

I guess I never thought about the profile limiting the number of characters in that special circumstances box. Um, so if that's the case, if it's too small, submit, put as much as you can in that box, submit your application, your student will be accepted at a school, you'll get the award. Then you contact those schools and say, I didn't have enough room to explain my special circumstance.

This is what we're experiencing and more cases than not. I'll ask you to write a letter that will be sent to that school email to that school and then they'll have that on file and add that to your information. So there's always a way to share more more information regarding the properties. You're going to add up to 9 properties.

I would, I would, whoever might have sent that question, if you're still listening, if these are commercial properties that are probably listed in your business. Um, or your tax your schedule leave of your tax form, you would have a statement that would list all those properties. If that's the case, we'll find that trust me, we'll find it.

Um, and we'll have that information so you do the best you can. And if you want to add a special circumstances that you have 15 other properties that are just properties they're not business producing. Share that, um, in the schools who are interested in following up with you will do that. Um, and regarding other expenses and such.

Yep. That's what that's designed for that special circumstances box earlier. I mentioned elder care. So a lot of families might have a grandmother or grandfather living in the household with them. You may count them on your taxes. We will count that as an additional person in your household. Other families might be supporting a grandparent in a nursing home, or they might be living on their own, but they supplement their income with 2, 000 a month or more.

That is something you want to share in that special circumstances that you're taking care of your parents, mother or father. Um, and this is what we're we're experiencing. You might have a, uh, child who's 27, 28, 30 years old who special needs who is living your household or you're supplementing in a program or something.

You want to add that in special circumstances. Um, you might have, you might have had. Incredible debt because your home experienced a hurricane or some kind of storm or natural disaster, and you're replacing the roof or a garage or something special circumstances share that with us again. We're looking for that entire family profile.

Um, I kind of chuckle myself. I think every family has a special circumstance. Um, this is, you know, put it in there. Your schools will will decide, um, if it's something that we want to recognize and help with, or if it's something that just doesn't meet the level of that. We all have special meetings that we that we hold weekly to have these conversations, and how we can help the family in the best way, and we'll come up with that decision and they'll get back to you.

Thank you. So, Jonathan, Jennifer, I'll see if you have a couple that you're. Wanting to ask and, um, then I think we're going to have to stop. There are so many questions. So we, you will have other chances to, um, to ask. And I will also say that MIFA has been putting out blog posts with questions and answers.

So we'll include some of these that we haven't been able to answer in our next blog post as well. I got one for you here. Um, and that is can you go back and edit the CSS profile after it's submitted? Great question was mine too. That's popular. Yep. You can do it once. So you can go back once in the CSS profile and change.

Uh, you know, you forgot to report a business. You forgot to report a child. Um, you know, it might be something that you had gone through the process and then once you submit it, you're like, Oh, shoot, I wanted to talk about this and or add some to special circumstances. You can go back and make a change once, and then that will be recorded and sent and shared with the colleges you're applying to.

After that, my advice is. Have you wait till your student gets accepted at whatever school they're applying to and then follow up with the school to share the, the other change or mistake you might have made, um, because then they will, they will do what they want to do with it. And that's kind of a neat way to kind of compare awards to that some school might not recognize it while one may.

If that's the case, you can decide what what's what, you know, what's the better deal for you. I

may just ask this last question. Um, which is if there's an asset like a savings account that both the parent and the students names are on. How did they report that as a parent asset or student asset parent asset because again, schools are going to look at 3 to 5 percent of our parents, 25 percent of students would put it in the students, you know, I You know, between the, the four of us here and the 250 people listening, take your student savings, put it into your checking account, count it as yours, put a zero on theirs, and then give it back to them when they graduate.

You know, the idea is that you, if if we're, if schools are looking at 25%, and I'm gonna get emails from other colleagues and sure other schools were saying this, but the idea is, you know, help yourself out and, and, and report it as your asset if that's the case. Um, the, um, but any case like that where it's a shared thing, don't want to talk about 529s, and Julie, we could do another hour, talk about 529 plans, um, if a student's 529 is in their name, and they're the owner of that 529 plan, then the student has to report that as their asset.

You can't carry that over. If the 529 plan is in a parent's name to benefit the students. That's the parent's asset report that if it's a grandparent's 5 to 9 plan that they've set up for the grandchildren and the grandparent's name don't report it because it's the grandparent's asset and that and different schools look at that differently.

My, my reading my understanding of that is and I think fast was looking at that to the idea is that that's the grandparents asset do not report that if the sibling has a 5 to 9 plan. Um, That there's a question you notice on the CSS profile says what, um, um, assets and siblings name that needs to be reported.

And if a parent has just really quick, because this comes up a lot, if a parent has a 529 plan for both Johnny and Susie, you got to report them both because the law is the policies are, you can borrow from another 529 to supplement. Um, another student. So you got to report all those 529 plans, except I was.

So that's what I wanted to say, because two of those things changed on the FAFSA this year, but have not changed on the CSS profile, right? So, yep, FAFSA, no grandparent, uncle 529s, and on the FAFSA, I think I may have even answered this wrong at one point, and I corrected it behind the scenes on the FAFSA.

You only have to report the 529 plan for the student who's FAFSA you're doing at the moment. But that's a change this year and like Mike said on the CSS profile they do say the assets and siblings names. So what's interesting is that a lot of FAFSA changes reflect CSS profile. Like FAFSA has asked for business assets and such now that didn't in the past.

CSS profiles adopting a little bit of the FAFSA changes which the parent and Who the custodial parent and such isn't. And that makes sense because it makes it easier for our offices that the two are kind of close together. But the profile is always going to ask more questions because the colleges are giving out their money, and they want that full family profile.

All right, I'm close Jennifer Jonathan, any last questions. I don't think so. No, I don't think so either. All right, but but I'm gonna just right now quickly. Uh, let's just say I'll just say it. So Jonathan, you might know better than I do. College planning at MIFA dot org. Yeah, you got our email. And what's the phone number?

800 449 MIFA. I'm sorry. I've been saying it for 20 years and I forgot it just when you asked. Yeah, 800 449 6